Meeting created at: 28th Sep, 2025 - 7:40 PM1
Valerie Gorham: Dear listeners of mine, welcome back to another episode of More than you think.
Valerie Gorham: Well, yes, this is going to be episode two of More Than you Think, which is WKNC's newest podcast, hosted by me, Valerie, where we go into detail and talk about how pop culture events that are happening or that have happened in the past are related to the political, social, and economic climate.
Valerie Gorham: Last episode, I ended the podcast by saying that were going to talk about Sabrina Carpenter's new album, man, specifically Friend, and the controversy around that.
Valerie Gorham: That I was going to survey some of the students here at NC State about it, which I did.
Valerie Gorham: I also said that were going to dissect a reading that I did for my law ethics class and connect it to pop culture and the entertainment industry, which we will do later.
Valerie Gorham: But we're going to start with the man's best friend controversy.
Valerie Gorham: And now that the album is out, we can actually talk about whether or not it's problematic.
Valerie Gorham: And I'm going to give my personal take on the album itself, like the music and everything, the artistry.
Valerie Gorham: So a quick summary about the controversy that started over the summer with this album.
Valerie Gorham: Over the summer, Sabrina announced that she was going to be releasing a new album called Man's Best Friend.
Valerie Gorham: And the COVID of the album is a picture of her on all fours, except she has, like, her hand up, like, pointing at something, but you can't see what she's, like, gesturing to.
Valerie Gorham: And there's like a man in a suit grabbing her by the hair, and it seems like he's kind of dragging her sort of.
Valerie Gorham: So a lot of people were like, oh, my gosh, this is, like, really demeaning towards women.
Valerie Gorham: This makes us look like pets.
Valerie Gorham: Like, this makes us look like we have no control, and it makes us look like men own us.
Valerie Gorham: What the heck?
Valerie Gorham: Why is Sabrina promoting this kind of stuff?
Valerie Gorham: So a good bit of time has passed since the album was released, but it was released August 29th of 2025, and upon its release, Sabrina was interviewed by a bunch of people.
Valerie Gorham: And in one interview, she was asked about the controversy around the COVID which she ended up changing.
Valerie Gorham: Like, she ended up making alternate covers.
Valerie Gorham: But her response to the controversy around the original cover was, number one, it was, you guys need to get outside more.
Valerie Gorham: And number two, she said that when she made this cover, she thought it was very obvious that she was the one in control of the situation happening on the COVID which I would like to remind you again, is her on the floor on her knees, and the man is grabbing her and pulling her by the hair, which, you know, it's a little confusing.
Valerie Gorham: If you see the COVID it looks like she's definitely not in control.
Valerie Gorham: There's a man standing.
Valerie Gorham: Standing above her.
Valerie Gorham: She's down, and it looks like she's, like, sticking her hand up, like, begging like a dog.
Valerie Gorham: You know what I mean?
Valerie Gorham: It just doesn't look like she really has any control.
Valerie Gorham: The guy is, like, messing with her hair also, like, messing it up like that.
Valerie Gorham: That ticks me off because she probably worked really hard on her hair, and this guy is freaking tangling it.
Valerie Gorham: Like, that bothers me too.
Valerie Gorham: Like, she's not in charge of that.
Valerie Gorham: She's got a point.
Valerie Gorham: If you see a picture of a girl on her knees begging like a dog, the automatic assumption is not, oh, she knows what she's up.
Valerie Gorham: I think we all are all in agreement.
Valerie Gorham: Like, that's a little bit among us.
Valerie Gorham: Okay, so over the summer, when I saw that cover, I had my doubts about it, but I didn't want to say anything because I thought maybe it was intentionally misleading and it was trying to trick everyone into thinking, Sabrina's doing this whole submissive thing.
Valerie Gorham: And then when they listen to the album, maybe we're all gonna be like, oh, my gosh, she's taking her power back.
Valerie Gorham: But, guys, I listened to the album the minute it was released.
Valerie Gorham: Like, midnight, I put my headphones on and I listened to this album because I was curious to see if she was gonna do something intelligent.
Valerie Gorham: But this album is not a very intelligent album.
Valerie Gorham: And that kind of surprised me from her, because her last album, although it wasn't, like, intellectual Shakespeare freaking philosophy, like, nobody's asking for that, but, like, short and Sweet.
Valerie Gorham: Most recent album before Man's Best Friend, was still pretty witty and fun.
Valerie Gorham: And all the songs were like, catch, except for, like, what Sharpest Tool?
Valerie Gorham: That one wasn't very catchy, but it wasn't meant to be catchy.
Valerie Gorham: That was meant to be, like, an emotional song.
Valerie Gorham: Whatever.
Valerie Gorham: Short and Sweet was a fun album.
Valerie Gorham: It was catchy and it was.
Valerie Gorham: It had some witty lyrics.
Valerie Gorham: Like, for example, when she was like, what a surprise.
Valerie Gorham: Your phone just died.
Valerie Gorham: Your car drove itself from LA to her side.
Valerie Gorham: Like, I was gagged when I heard that for the first time.
Valerie Gorham: I was like, wait, yes.
Valerie Gorham: Well, yes.
Valerie Gorham: And then this time, I wasn't gagged because here's the thing.
Valerie Gorham: Feather was a great song where it not only was catchy, but it was like, I don't really need.
Valerie Gorham: I don't really need this guy.
Valerie Gorham: I need to stop worrying about him.
Valerie Gorham: I need to stop thinking about him and centering my life around him.
Valerie Gorham: And I need to be independent and work on myself and have a good time.
Valerie Gorham: And that's like a fun, hot girl anthem, hot girl summer type thing.
Valerie Gorham: Vibes.
Valerie Gorham: Whereas this new album, she's dwelling on a man.
Valerie Gorham: And I don't know if it's one man, multiple men.
Valerie Gorham: Like, I just feel like she fumbled someone really badly.
Valerie Gorham: A lot of people get really angry at her, but she kind of reminds me of, like, that friend that you have that you love her so much.
Valerie Gorham: But she keeps finding the worst freaking men on the planet and worshiping them and worshiping the ground they walk on.
Valerie Gorham: And we all have that freaking friend, bro.
Valerie Gorham: Yeah.
Valerie Gorham: Sabrina Carpenter gives me the vibe of being like the Carrie Bradshaw of the friend group.
Valerie Gorham: So I asked the students of NC State what they thought about Sabrina Carpenter, and here are the results.
Valerie Gorham: I got about 50 responses.
Valerie Gorham: And 30% male, 70% female.
Valerie Gorham: On a scale of 1 to 10, the average rating for man's best friend was 7.83.
Valerie Gorham: The average rating for short and sweet was actually lower, 7.33.
Valerie Gorham: Interestingly enough, because I actually preferred short and sweet.
Valerie Gorham: And I thought a lot of people did too, but I guess not here at NC State.
Valerie Gorham: But North Carolina is a very strange state, especially when you mix everybody up at this huge public university.
Valerie Gorham: You get all kinds of people.
Valerie Gorham: So I asked people, did you find the album cover offensive?
Valerie Gorham: 10% of people said yes.
Valerie Gorham: And then I asked people, what do you think about Sabrina Carpenter's brand, about all the criticism around her?
Valerie Gorham: And.
Valerie Gorham: And for the most part, I guess it was mostly women answering, but for the most part, people said, she's relatable, she's empowering, she can do whatever she wants.
Valerie Gorham: There were only a few answers that said that she was, like, harmful.
Valerie Gorham: This one says, I think it can be harmful.
Valerie Gorham: But espresso was heat, which is true.
Valerie Gorham: Like, espresso was heat.
Valerie Gorham: Guys, the students at NC State might not have had too much to say about this album, but obviously I spend a lot of time on freaking stan, Twitter and TikTok.
Valerie Gorham: And it looks like the general public, like, people who are more into pop culture, definitely didn't really like this album.
Valerie Gorham: They found it boring.
Valerie Gorham: They found it sort of lazy, and they didn't think it was well written.
Valerie Gorham: I thought that the production, like, the music, the instrumental portion of the album, I thought that was great.
Valerie Gorham: Especially in, like, tears, if you actually go through and read the lyrics throughout the album, there are many mentions of, like a man that she was Seeing or dating or whatever.
Valerie Gorham: And like he starts to like lock in or something.
Valerie Gorham: Like he's going monk mode or something.
Valerie Gorham: Like not wanting touch her, not wanting to hang out with her.
Valerie Gorham: And I just feel like if I was Sabrina Dang Carpenter, one of the biggest stars, most successful women on the planet right now, very highly desired girl, right?
Valerie Gorham: Like, what the heck are you doing begging for a man?
Valerie Gorham: Why are you begging a man to be with you?
Valerie Gorham: Wake up.
Valerie Gorham: I wish I could.
Valerie Gorham: Slap, slap, slap.
Valerie Gorham: Literally.
Valerie Gorham: Get up.
Valerie Gorham: Get off the ground.
Valerie Gorham: You are Sabrina Carpenter.
Valerie Gorham: Hello.
Valerie Gorham: I know you were on Girl Meets World for a minute there, but that doesn't matter anymore.
Valerie Gorham: It doesn't matter that you were on that show.
Valerie Gorham: That ended the streak of good Disney Channel shows.
Valerie Gorham: It's okay that you are on that show.
Valerie Gorham: That's over and now you're a global superstar.
Valerie Gorham: Stop valuing yourself based off of what men think of you and stop advertising that Sabrina Carpenter is a huge star who gets advertised to everyone.
Valerie Gorham: Like, she's huge.
Valerie Gorham: She's everywhere.
Valerie Gorham: Not to mention the fact also that it's scientifically proven that the music you listen to on a daily basis can impact your mental health and it can, like alter your subconscious.
Valerie Gorham: So if you keep listening to like male centered music where it's this girl crying and crying, literally, she says in this album Man's Best Friend, that she's crying over a man drinking too much because of him, she's wishing bad things on him.
Valerie Gorham: Like she's obsessed with this man that she either fumbled or who just has broken her heart.
Valerie Gorham: And not to say that you can't be sad over a heartbreak, but then you name the album Man's Best Friend and make yourself look like a dog.
Valerie Gorham: Oh, that's not in the sense that.
Valerie Gorham: And now women are under the impression that you, Sabrina Carpenter, probably one of the most powerful women in the music industry right now, ends up actually not being powerful at all.
Valerie Gorham: And that you can easily be like destroyed over a man.
Valerie Gorham: A man.
Valerie Gorham: And then she goes on this interview and she's like, well, I think that this album obviously shows how in control I am when that's not the case at all.
Valerie Gorham: And it's like, sis, we love you and we know you can do better, but this is so tone deaf, especially right now.
Valerie Gorham: Like, don't even joke about this, lad.
Valerie Gorham: Don't even joke about women's rights right now, lad, because there are groups of right wing men that are actively trying to get rid of women's rights.
Valerie Gorham: I'm not even joking.
Valerie Gorham: There are fascist groups of right wing extremists who are actively trying to get rid of women's right to vote.
Valerie Gorham: This is not me kidding.
Valerie Gorham: I'm actually being serious.
Valerie Gorham: So making an album where a woman is shown being dragged by her hair on her hands and knees and comparing herself to a dog, saying that she's man's best friend, basically saying, yeah, like advertising to the world.
Valerie Gorham: Like, yeah, us women, we'll do anything you guys say.
Valerie Gorham: And we are.
Valerie Gorham: We only care about men at this moment in time.
Valerie Gorham: At any moment in time.
Valerie Gorham: I don't even understand why anyone would do that ever.
Valerie Gorham: But girl, this wasn't the move.
Valerie Gorham: I'm sorry.
Valerie Gorham: I'm sorry.
Valerie Gorham: This wasn't the move.
Valerie Gorham: And actually, you know what?
Valerie Gorham: I'm not sorry because that's just true.
Valerie Gorham: And Sabrina Carpenter is someone who could do so much better because of the album.
Valerie Gorham: Emails I Can't Send was great.
Valerie Gorham: It wasn't male centered.
Valerie Gorham: It was just fun and awesome and cool and it had substance, whereas this album didn't really have substance, unfortunately.
Valerie Gorham: But that also could have been a consequence of, like the very short period of time it took to make this album.
Valerie Gorham: Like, it was possibly rushed or something like that.
Valerie Gorham: So hopefully she puts a little more thought into the next one.
Valerie Gorham: Not just lyrically but also, like socially, you know.
Valerie Gorham: So, yeah, the Sabrina Carpenter album was a bad move on her part because it makes women look like we are just trying to appease men at a time where men are trying to get rid of our rights because of the current president making right wing extremist men feel empowered.
Valerie Gorham: Yes, everything matters.
Valerie Gorham: Everything matters.
Valerie Gorham: Okay, But I am a Sabrina Carpenter fan and, like, this disappointed me a lot.
Valerie Gorham: I still like her.
Valerie Gorham: I just feel disappointed, you know, like when your mom's like, no, I'm not mad.
Valerie Gorham: I'm just disappointed because I know you can do better, you know, like, I know she can do better.
Valerie Gorham: And hopefully next time is better.
Valerie Gorham: But let's move on.
Valerie Gorham: That concludes that.
Valerie Gorham: And now we're going to move on to the next topic, which is the reading that I did for my law ethics class, which is called what Will Future Generations Condemn Us For?
Valerie Gorham: By Kwame Anthony Appiah, who is an English philosopher.
Valerie Gorham: American English philosopher.
Valerie Gorham: I also want to mention that in the last episode of this podcast, I said Appaya instead of Appiah.
Valerie Gorham: It's pronounced Appiah, so I guess I wasn't listening that well in class.
Valerie Gorham: But from now on, we are going to pronounce it correctly.
Valerie Gorham: It's Appiah.
Valerie Gorham: His name is Kwame Anthony Appiah.
Valerie Gorham: And Basically this selection, this reading that were given for our class, it goes over slavery and other practices that were considered normal a long time ago that now obviously we look back on and we're like, what the frick?
Valerie Gorham: Appiah argues that there are three main signs that you should look out for if you think a practice today will be condemned in the future.
Valerie Gorham: And the signs are, number one, that there are already arguments against it.
Valerie Gorham: Number two, people who defend it invoke tradition or other like non moral arguments.
Valerie Gorham: So for example, like back in the day if you said, well slavery is bad, you're like torturing people and killing people, like that's not good.
Valerie Gorham: And then somebody would say like, well that's the way we've always done it's tradition.
Valerie Gorham: Like that's not a valid argument.
Valerie Gorham: That's sign number two.
Valerie Gorham: And number three is strategic ignorance or like purposeful ignorance.
Valerie Gorham: So people who are for the practice or in favor of the practice, they do their best to ignore arguments against it in order for them to be able to say that they didn't know so that they can't seem like bad people.
Valerie Gorham: But obviously it's still morally wrong if you're being ignorant on purpose.
Valerie Gorham: Sign number three, strategic ignorance or purposeful ignorance.
Valerie Gorham: So I'm going to list three pop culture practices that by obvious standards probably be looked back on in the future with condemnation.
Valerie Gorham: Starting with number one, child actors.
Valerie Gorham: I don't know if you guys have seen the Nickelodeon documentary about Dan Schneider, but gosh, that was terrible.
Valerie Gorham: And the treatment of child actors and child stars in general, also like singers and dancers, it's been something that's been pretty hard to hide from the public because of the way that these kids turn out when they're older.
Valerie Gorham: Like they go crazy like we know right now, Britney Spears or like Shia LaBeouf.
Valerie Gorham: These people had very public crash outs and very public controversies that probably resulted from their psyche getting messed up when they were kids.
Valerie Gorham: And it's just strange how consistently it's child actors that end up like this.
Valerie Gorham: It's like one after the other, a bunch of kids from Disney Channel as well as Nickelodeon.
Valerie Gorham: And like in the 90s and 80s, for example, also Amanda Bynes, like a lot of these child stars end up with a lot of mental health problems.
Valerie Gorham: And then of course there's the Disney Channel trifecta.
Valerie Gorham: Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato and Selena Gomez all dealt with depression, anxiety, addictions and stuff like that.
Valerie Gorham: After being on Disney Channel or maybe during, towards the end of being on Disney Channel, I'm not exactly sure, but they all came out of Disney Channel with, like, severe mental health struggles.
Valerie Gorham: Lindsay Lohan is another example of somebody who.
Valerie Gorham: She was extremely famous in the 2000s.
Valerie Gorham: Like, like, one of the biggest stars on the planet.
Valerie Gorham: And then, you know, she had to go to rehab several times.
Valerie Gorham: And, like, to make matters even worse, they plastered her entire personal life everywhere and made all of her problems public.
Valerie Gorham: In retrospect, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal because she's doing so much better now.
Valerie Gorham: And at the very least, we can say that she sets a good example for anyone who goes through similar struggles.
Valerie Gorham: But, I mean, can you imagine going through all that, being so famous, probably going to a bunch of parties, ending up with some addictions, and now everyone hates you because you're a terrible example for their children that grew up watching you.
Valerie Gorham: That's not fair.
Valerie Gorham: And she was so young.
Valerie Gorham: An earlier example from a longer time ago is Macaulay Culkin, of course, the star of the first two Home Alone movies, which are, like, the best Christmas movies ever.
Valerie Gorham: Yes.
Valerie Gorham: Every single Christmas.
Valerie Gorham: Yes, absolutely.
Valerie Gorham: But unfortunately, this guy, he became so freaking famous as a little kid, like, freaking 10 years old.
Valerie Gorham: And, yeah, he experienced a lot of substance abuse issues, also depression, things like that.
Valerie Gorham: And, like, everybody knows about that, right?
Valerie Gorham: So, yeah, being a child star, being that famous as a kid, it's probably not very healthy.
Valerie Gorham: And back to the reading.
Valerie Gorham: There are already a lot of arguments against child acting.
Valerie Gorham: Is it even ethical?
Valerie Gorham: Like, should there even be child actors at all?
Valerie Gorham: A lot of people say no.
Valerie Gorham: And I've never heard anybody defending child acting.
Valerie Gorham: I think everyone's kind of against it.
Valerie Gorham: But the problem is, like, the treatment of child actors, especially a lot of the time by their parents has been pretty traumatizing for them.
Valerie Gorham: For a lot of these kids, it's the parents forcing them into this position, saying that my baby's going to be a star and I'm going to do whatever it takes to make you a star.
Valerie Gorham: And then they force their kids and they overwork their kids and they abuse their kids.
Valerie Gorham: The second thing that I think applies to this reading that people will look back on with disgust, hopefully, is the beauty standards.
Valerie Gorham: And I want to say mostly the beauty standards for women, but it's actually for both women and men.
Valerie Gorham: There's this standard in Hollywood that all of the stars have to fit.
Valerie Gorham: Number one, there are already arguments against it.
Valerie Gorham: Obviously, you'll see discourse online in on the news about how unhealthy it is for people to look up to models and singers Because a lot of these people have eating disorders and that's why they're so skinny and they look so quote unquote healthy and good.
Valerie Gorham: And I've had plenty of friends who have had eating disorders.
Valerie Gorham: I've known plenty of girls who have had eating disorders because they wanted to be skinny and they wanted to look pretty.
Valerie Gorham: So it's unhealthy.
Valerie Gorham: There are arguments against it.
Valerie Gorham: And the second sign is that defenders invoke tradition or other non moral arguments.
Valerie Gorham: And yes, when I hear people defending a beauty standard, it's always.
Valerie Gorham: Well, there have always been beauty standards, or that's just the way biology works.
Valerie Gorham: It's the reason that this is the beauty standard is because it's probably the most biologically healthy and people find healthy traits attractive for reproduction.
Valerie Gorham: Whatever.
Valerie Gorham: But if you're too skinny, you're unhealthy.
Valerie Gorham: Or if you don't have enough body fat, that's actually unhealthy.
Valerie Gorham: If you don't have a little flabbity flap, you might die if you get the flu.
Valerie Gorham: I'm not even joking.
Valerie Gorham: I don't know if any of you have seen Parks and Recreation, but there's this episode where Chris, played by Rob Lowe, this character he plays, he's like extremely fit and he has like a super low body fat percentage and he gets hit with a cold and he almost dies.
Valerie Gorham: And that's true.
Valerie Gorham: If you don't have enough body fat, you're.
Valerie Gorham: Your body will not be able to protect you from like the simplest of viruses.
Valerie Gorham: So yeah, that's not biologically healthy.
Valerie Gorham: And for reproduction, that's not good.
Valerie Gorham: Also, if you're a woman and you are too skinny, you can't have kids anymore.
Valerie Gorham: So the reproduction argument is not even a valid argument.
Valerie Gorham: Like, it's just scientifically wrong.
Valerie Gorham: And then finally, strategic ignorance.
Valerie Gorham: Well, yes.
Valerie Gorham: Like, well yes.
Valerie Gorham: Like people pretend that they didn't know that being too skinny can kill you the frick.
Valerie Gorham: For men, it's like you have to look like somewhere in between John Cena and Timothee Chalamet.
Valerie Gorham: The point is, like, nobody's allowed to have any body fat anymore.
Valerie Gorham: Like, obviously, Timothee Chalamet, that's a man with no body fat.
Valerie Gorham: I hope he never gets a cold.
Valerie Gorham: And then like John Cena, super muscular, big guy.
Valerie Gorham: Like, by the way, Peacemaker.
Valerie Gorham: Literally the best show ever.
Valerie Gorham: Love it so much.
Valerie Gorham: But anyways, I digress.
Valerie Gorham: There's a beauty standard for everyone, even men.
Valerie Gorham: And especially as people start getting older, there's like more pressure on them to stay young.
Valerie Gorham: Which is why, like, for example, Kris Jenner, she's had like a facelift recently that everybody, it's left people speechless because she looks really good.
Valerie Gorham: And then a lot of younger women celebrities are getting Botox and fillers at an earlier age to prevent aging later on.
Valerie Gorham: There's already discourse about that.
Valerie Gorham: And I think in the future there will hopefully be a solution.
Valerie Gorham: Or we'll just learn to love ourselves even as we age.
Valerie Gorham: Hopefully.
Valerie Gorham: And people will look back on that and question like, why we ever did that in the first place.
Valerie Gorham: Or it'll get worse.
Valerie Gorham: Maybe it'll even get worse.
Valerie Gorham: And maybe they will find out better ways to keep ourselves young and we'll just keep making it crazier and by 100 years from now, everyone will look 20 forever.
Valerie Gorham: Which actually seems kind of chill.
Valerie Gorham: I'm not even going to lie.
Valerie Gorham: Like, that actually seems kind of awesome.
Valerie Gorham: The third practice that I thought fit these standards was AI in art.
Valerie Gorham: Obviously people kind of hate AI stuff already.
Valerie Gorham: And when I hear people trying to defend AI art, usually their defense is like, well, it makes it easier for me to make my art grow.
Valerie Gorham: What?
Valerie Gorham: Like, okay, but it's not that it's making it easier, it's that it's doing it for you.
Valerie Gorham: You know, as for the strategic ignorance, I think a lot of people are strategically ignorant about AI because not only does it like suppress your creativity and your critical thinking skills, but it's also bad for the environment.
Valerie Gorham: Yeah, sorry.
Valerie Gorham: I did really love when Chat GPT first came out, I was like, wow, I'm never going to have to do anything in my life ever again.
Valerie Gorham: I'm so excited.
Valerie Gorham: But then I found out it was bad for the environment.
Valerie Gorham: Shouts out Chat GPT.
Valerie Gorham: Try not to use Chat G, B T or any other AI unless you really have to.
Valerie Gorham: Cuz it's also bad for your brain if you don't think, if you don't use your brain is a muscle and if you don't use it'll get weaker.
Valerie Gorham: Whatever.
Valerie Gorham: Lame.
Valerie Gorham: Okay, but it's important to think about these things because the more we think about it now, the quicker you can prevent it from causing damage in your society.
Valerie Gorham: Right?
Valerie Gorham: So hopefully if anyone is listening to this podcast, feel free to talk about these things with your friends.
Valerie Gorham: Because spreading awareness, being socially aware, politically aware, practicing morality, it's good for society, even if it's just in a pop culture context, which is what we do on this podcast.
Valerie Gorham: More than you think.
Valerie Gorham: Well, yes.
Valerie Gorham: Which I am going to conclude now, but in the next episode, I'm going to talk about how the show, the Summer I Turned Pretty, relates to the declining birth rate in America.
Valerie Gorham: What you might be thinking, Valerie, that doesn't make any freaking sense.
Valerie Gorham: Well, actually, it does, and I'm going to explain it next time, and you're going to be like, dang, that's true, white woman.
Valerie Gorham: Okay, and then I'm doing another survey, so if you see QR codes around the school, scan them with your phone.
Valerie Gorham: Scan them with your phone.
Valerie Gorham: It's gonna be just a survey on, like, what kind of pop culture and music, movies, shows, video games that the students here at NC State enjoy.
Valerie Gorham: And we're gonna dissect that, and we're gonna see how diverse this school actually is.
Valerie Gorham: Okay?
Valerie Gorham: Okay.
Valerie Gorham: Okay.
Valerie Gorham: Love you.
Valerie Gorham: I love you.
Valerie Gorham: To my one or two listeners, if even that.
Valerie Gorham: I love you guys.
Valerie Gorham: Oh, yes, and you love me because if you didn't, you wouldn't have made it to the end of the dang podcast.
Valerie Gorham: But you're here.
Valerie Gorham: Okay.
Valerie Gorham: I love you.
Valerie Gorham: I am done with this episode.
Valerie Gorham: Tune in next week.
Valerie Gorham: Yes, Tune in next week or else.
Valerie Gorham: Well, yes.
Valerie Gorham: Okay.
Valerie Gorham: Love you.
Valerie Gorham: Bye, Sam.
